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Patrick Lien
Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Lewiston Idaho |
| Posts: | 29 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:16 am |
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I think the PGCA should pursue an effort to compile information on the guns that are missing from the existing records.
1. Create a database of all missing serial numbers.
2. Provide access to the database from the PGCA site.
3. Allow only current active members of the PGCA to record information on guns they have found in the database.
4. Collect the same information that is in the serialization book;
a. Grade
b. Action
c. Stock
d. Bore
e. Barrel length
f. Extras
5. Add a comments field to the record to allow the finder to post their comments on
the guns condition, repair codes, choke, extra.
6. Allow and encourage the posting of pictures on a “found gun”.
7. Add the Remington guns to the list to allow members to post the unique characteristics of the late guns that are not available via the IBM cards.
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Tom Bria
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Fri Jan 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 427 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:31 am |
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| OK, but why #3? Seems to be a bit counterproductive.
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Cooper Smith
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:35 am |
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Excellent idea, and I agree withTom's comment on item 3. Seems that quite a number of "no record" Parkers come from new users of the PGCA BBS and not just PGCA Members, or from guns on dealer/auction web sites. Would love to see new data published to fill in some of the blanks.
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Patrick Lien
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Lewiston Idaho |
| Posts: | 29 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:39 am |
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good question:
1. Because people log into this sight every week with the "lost guns". They register with their real name as required and they just want to know about dad or grandpa's gun. They don't know breach from muzzle; straight from pistol. Limiting this collection of data to the "PGCA Experts" will ensure that the information gathered is to some extent screened or filtered by someone with some knowledge of the Parker gun and its history.
2. One more Incentive to join the PGCA. I now have another reason to give you my money. Every gun I look at is now a potential "found" and I can contribute to gathering new information on the Parker gun.
Pat
Last edited on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:55 am by Patrick Lien
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Patrick Lien
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| Location: | Lewiston Idaho |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:45 am |
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Cooper,
You are right. I found 5 "missing gun's" today just surfing the web. And the dealers and auction sites are doing half the work in posting pictures for our scrutiny. Now the PGCA needs to put the PGCA expertice to work and capture this information for future generations.
Pat
Last edited on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:03 am by Patrick Lien
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Timothy Sheldon
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 273 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 04:18 am |
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I agree with Pat, espically #3. Sounds like a great idea.
Tim
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Patrick Lien
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:15 am |
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Wrap it into the gun raffle. Find and Raffle a "missing gun" every year.
Wrap it into merchandise. He who finds the most guns in a quarter or year gets the hat at the annual meeting(which should be scheduled for the January Vegas arms show next year).
Wrap it into the Parker pages(Gun's found this year, highlighting the "UNIQUE" finds with pictures.
From My estimates there are 80,000 guns missing from the records. The PGCA represents arguably the best American Shotgun ever made and the PGCA can only accurately qualify 66% of the guns made? This is a no-brainer for an organization dedicated to the Parker gun. If my math is off, please go ahead and correct my figures if you have more accurate information. Once this squabbling is over we can move on to how is the best way to collect and archive this data.
Last edited on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 05:13 pm by Patrick Lien
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Sante Giuliani
BBS Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 27th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maine USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 11:42 am |
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Heck I have 3 Parkers and 2 have no records and the one that has some info states its missing.
____________________
"Fly fishing is my Quisisana" Italian for "place where one heals one's self."
Visit my website on bamboo rods
Fishnbanjos Place
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Buddy Marson
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
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| Posts: | 15 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 12:39 pm |
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| Sounds like a good idea to me. I have one I'd like to enter.
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5393 |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 03:52 pm |
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| Sante, could you clarify your post? Are you saying that you have a PGCA letter on a gun that shows on the serial number lookup to be a "no information" gun? Or maybe you saw a gun in the Serialization Book that the PGCA lookup lists as a "no information" gun? Thanks for replying. Is Pat saying that somehow he has found that the PGCA database of information includes around 162,000 guns? Did our researcher share that information with him? By the way, who owns the collection of work tags that were owned by a Parker collector now deceased? Were they donated to PGCA, or are they still privately held? These cards should be in the PGCA research collection, but are they?
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James T. Kucaba
PGCA Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 08:17 pm |
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Patrick Lien wrote: Wrap it into the gun raffle. Find and Raffle a "missing gun" every year.
Wrap it into merchandise. He who finds the most guns in a quarter or year gets the hat at the annual meeting (Which should be scheduled for the Janusry Vegas arms show next year.)
Wrap it into the Parker pages(Gun's found this year, highlighting the "UNIQUE" finds with pictures.
From My estimates there are 80,000 guns missing from the records. The PGCA represents arguably the best American Shotgun ever made and the PGCA can only accurately qualify 66% of the guns made? This is a no-brainer for an organization dedicated to the Parker gun. If my math is off, please go ahead and correct my figures if you have more accurate information. Once this squabbling is over we can move on to how is the best way to collect and archive this data.
Patrick ... I would love to see the annual meeting held at the January Vegas Arms show, or in a different geographic location around the country, and other locations west of the Mississippi River.
But judging from the low number of responses I got to my post about the possibility of having a PGCA table at the January 2009 Vegas show, and the fact that nobody on the BOD is from the western US, I don't see the annual meeting being held anywhere west of the Mississippi any time soon.
IMHO, the annual meeting will remain in the eastern US until there's a sufficient number of Life Members from the Western US to elect a few 'Westerners" to the BOD and force a change of location ... So, like it or not, it's about "Politics."
Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKucaba@aol.com
Last edited on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 08:19 pm by James T. Kucaba
____________________
"The price of critics NEVER changes ... They're ALWAYS a dime a dozen !"
"Those Who Matter Don't Judge Me ... Those Who Judge Me Don't Matter !"
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Patrick Lien
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 10:19 pm |
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Bill Murphy wrote: Is Pat saying that somehow he has found that the PGCA database of information includes around 162,000 guns? Did our researcher share that information with him?
Pat is not saying that at all. Pat did not imply that. Pat did not make any attempt to make you think he access to any PGCA data. Pat just did some math;
Parker made ABOUT 243,000 guns. The serialization book has ALMOST 156,000 entries(288 guns per page * 541 pages = 155,808)
243,000 - 156,000 = 87,000 missing guns. Now I know that the PGCA has records on guns not in the serial # book so decrease this figure by what ever you like. Now add all of the Remington guns that have very little usefull information on the IBM cards and you still get a darn big number.
I think it would be a worthwile effort to gather information on these guns.
Pat
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Travis Sims
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 13th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 10:29 pm |
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| I like the idea! However, a template should be setup and used in describing said guns.
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Timothy Sheldon
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 10:47 pm |
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Also, clean up any incorrect data on existing records. I have a 28ga GHE and the book says it is a DHE 410???? It is a Remington gun. This could be a double edged sword though if some guns have been altered.
Tim
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Sante Giuliani
BBS Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 27th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maine USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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Hi Bill,
When I do the search using the serial numbers 2 of the guns come back with no information available and one comes back stating records exist but are not complete or something of that nature. The one that comes back with that is a DH 12 28" CA 1904, the two that have no data are a 12 PH 28" CA 1924 and 16 VHE 26" CA 1934.
____________________
"Fly fishing is my Quisisana" Italian for "place where one heals one's self."
Visit my website on bamboo rods
Fishnbanjos Place
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Bill Murphy
PGCA Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 5393 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 17th, 2008 02:53 pm |
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| Many pre 1919 guns that would have been included in missing stock books are available for research in PGCA order book copies. Most guns that are not available for serious research are guns made post 1919 with serial numbers higher than the 186,000 range. However, many of those post 1919 guns are at least available for research into their original configuration, if not the original owner. Pat's estimate of the number of missing guns is as good as any.
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