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Dick Blumreich
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 02:53 pm |
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| Does anyone out there have any experience shooting steel out of a mod,full choked Parker 12 gauge reproduction. I'm not talking about the Steel Shot Special, just the regular 12 gauges. Dick B.
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Steve Kleist
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 06:41 pm |
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Hi Dick,
I have a 12 ga Repro Magnum with Briley screw in chokes. I shoot plenty of steel through it and it seems to work just fine. Perhaps in a few years I will wear it out but that's why I bought it. The full, I have heard, is too constrictive for steel and I do not shoot that choke with steel.
If you are shooting waterfowl you certainly don't need a tight choke. Skeet, IC or LMod are plenty for moderate ranges, and they pattern very well.
I use it also on the skeet range and test my steel reloads with #7 shot for practice.
There are also soft shot alloys on the market as well.
Good Luck, Steve Kleist
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Steve Kleist
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Bob Jurewicz
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Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 08:24 pm |
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I have what I believe to be the last Parker Repro Brochure 1990 that states: "Designed to effieciently handle steel shot, these barrels are hard brazed rather than soft soldered."
An early brochure reads: "The use of superior materials enables the Parker Reproduction to handle properly loaded steel shot."
Even with that said steel in the Mod/Full barrels probably is not a good idea.
Bob Jurewicz
Last edited on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 08:34 pm by Bob Jurewicz
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 11:03 pm |
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Dick, I owned a Steel Shot Special and was told by Jack Skeuse that it was the same as their other 12 gauges except chocked a bit more open IC/MOD. They were all ordered by Dunn's (I think 250 or so?) probably more as a marketing thing. I agree with Bob, I have brochures stating that all Parker Repros are ok with steel in mod or more open choke. Don't use full choke with steel!
Joe
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Hugh Rather
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Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 12:41 am |
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Bob Jurewicz wrote: I have what I believe to be the last Parker Repro Brochure 1990 that states: "Designed to effieciently handle steel shot, these barrels are hard brazed rather than soft soldered."
An early brochure reads: "The use of superior materials enables the Parker Reproduction to handle properly loaded steel shot."
Even with that said steel in the Mod/Full barrels probably is not a good idea.
Bob Jurewicz
In a recent thread a 12 gauge Repro that had separation of the lump and barrels was discussed.It was stated that Repros early on had soft solder used in this joint.This brochure indicates that they, at this point, were brazed.When did this change occur? See dettached lump thread by Gary Grubb.Last edited on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 03:18 am by Hugh Rather
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 02:20 pm |
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OK Dick, I found a 1988 Parker Repro newsletter in my files. It states:
"In anticipation of Federal regulations mandating the use of steel shot, Parker Reproductions were designed to fire properly loaded steel shot. ...barrels are hard brazed...rather than soft soldered,...interiors are hard chromed...not recommending that steel shot be fired through a full choke barrel with greater than twenty-five thousandths of an inch constriction."
Hope that helps!
Joe
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Mon Aug 25th, 2008 10:55 am |
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Joe, that should constitute the "factory" response to all future questions relative to the use of steel shot in Parker Reproductions. If that is on factory letterhead can you scan or photograph the letter and post it here?
Thanks, Dean
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 02:58 am |
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Dean, I can photograph it (scanning it would be something of a hassle) but I've never posted digital photos. I can send them as e-mail attachments though (pretty technological of me, huh!). Can you give me an address to send it to? (Maybe I should include a pic of my 28 ga. Repro. that I broke through the wrist and repaired, including refinishing the stock and recutting the checkering).
Joe
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 03:10 am |
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Sure Joe, e-mail the pics to me and I will post them for you.
DSRomig(at)aol.com
Substitute a @ in place of (at)
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 03:49 am |
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Will do, Dean.
Joe
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:20 am |
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Joe sent me the pictures of page 1 and page 2 of the Parker Reproduction Newsletter and after reading it thoroughly I believe the question of steel shot used in Parker Reproduction by Winchester guns can be laid to rest once and for all. Beginning in the last paragraph on page 1 where the letter addresses the I.S.C. (internal screw-in choke) repros intended for sporting clays shooters and goes on to page 2 to say it is "designed to handle steel shots" BUT . . . this only applies to repros manufactured with specially designed choke tubes (right in the area of ringing or ring-bulging in guns not designed for steel shot because of the hard shots inability to compress as it travels through the restriction of any choke tighter than MOD) which are hard enough to withstand the pressure of the steel shot. Remember, this paragraph addresses only the "I.S.C." Repros.
Next paragraph addresses the "Steel Shot Design" which I think can only be an early nomenclature for the "Steel Shot Special" which, to the best of our knowledge, is the only repro with chrome lined bores. If someone knows otherwise, please speak up. However, the paragraph is somewhat ambiguous as it neither refers directly and exactly to the Steel Shot Special or to "all" Parker Reproductions.
Any thoughts?
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:21 am |
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 01:04 pm |
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Dean, I'm pretty sure the Steel Shot Design paragraph refers to ALL Parker Repros. The Steel Shot Special was not substantially different (except for more open chokes and 3" chambers) from the rest. It was a small run (I think 250 guns-I bought one from them in 1988 or so) marketed by Paul Jaeger for Dunn's. I'm pretty sure I can find other documentation saying they ALL had chrome lined barrels (except for the choke area so they could be opened more easily if desired, according to a conversation I had in the 1980s with Jack Skeuse). I'll check my other brochures and email you pics if I find it.
Joe
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 01:18 pm by Joe Bernfeld
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 01:16 pm |
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P.S. I just found it in a big color brochure: Paragraph: "D-GRADE ...The use of superior materials enables the Parker Reproduction to handle properly loaded steel shot (no mention of Steel Shot Special). In the next paragraph: "Designed for today's sportsmen, the Parker Reproduction barrels are hard brazed together rather than soft soldered; their chambers and bores are hard chromed to insure generations of...blah, blah." Also, from what I can gather from the specifications page, the Steel Shot Special and ISC Sporting Clays Classic were the same gun except for the chokes and SS designation in the Steel Shot Special SN. Also, if the paragraph addressing the Steel Shot Design only referred to Steel Shot Specials, why the comment about not using steel in full choke? All SS Specials were choked IC/Mod. Dean, you are a hard man to convince!
Joe
Last edited on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 03:15 pm by Joe Bernfeld
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Dave Fuller
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 01:35 am |
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| I agree with Joe based on what I've read. I once owned a 12ga that had regular serial numbers, choked IC/Mod with 3" chambers. The chokes were very open and it shot a pattern like a cylinder through the mod barrel (with lead bird shot). I always had a theory that it was a Steel Shot special barrel in which they perhaps had backed off the choke a bit. It would be interesting to see some choke constriction numbers from "steel shot" barrels vs "standard." Maybe I'm crazy.
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Dave Fuller
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 01:36 am |
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| PS - Thanks Dean and Joe for the interesting post from Parker Reproductions
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Dean Romig
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 03:13 am |
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Here's the latest installment from Joe Bernfeld. It is a photo of an advertising brochure for the Parker Reproduction by Winchester. I think it is about as definitive proof as we'll ever see that all repros, excluding barrels with choke constriction in excess of .0025" are steel shot compatible.
So, I formally retract statements I had made previously to the contrary on this issue.
Joe told me in an e-mail that I am "a hard man to convince" and I must agree with him, I am that and when it comes to our treasured Parkers and Parker Repros I think we all ought to be skeptical about what we should and shouldn't stuff into them for ammo.
Dean
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 Last edited on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 03:15 am by Dean Romig
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John Dallas
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 03:49 am |
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| Does anyone have definitive proof that steel shot size 4 or smaller put thru any reasonable gun (Parker or not) and choked less that full has ever caused a problem?
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Joe Bernfeld
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 12:59 pm |
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Dave, you're welcome. Dean, I'm glad you are hard to convince...better safe than sorry! And thanks for posting the pictures. That last one was a bit hard to read but at least I didn't take it as a landscape so everyone had to tilt their head  . John, I was going to ask the same question; has anyone damaged a barrel with modified or more open choke and smaller steel shot? I duck hunt with a Grulla 12 ga pigeon gun choked .009" and .019" and shoot lots of steel 2s through it with no problem.
Joe
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Jerry Manion
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Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 09:04 pm |
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Dick,
I have a "G" grade Meridan gun that I had fitted with a set of 12ga fixed choke (IC/Mod) Repro barrels about 15 years ago. It has had thousands of rounds of steel #3 and #5 shot through it along with an equal number of Bismuth and Tungstun Matrix loads. All were pretty stiff waterfowl loads most of the steel was actually an 800x hand load of 1 1/8oz at 1475fps. There is not even a hint of a bulge or ring and the ribs are as tight as when new. BTW, I still have the original Damascus Barrels for the gun but they and the gun were in rough shape when I bought it for $ 250.00 (remember those days:<} ). Thus I would think it unlikely that you would have a problem.
Regards, Jerry
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